Fr. Benac: Since Our Lady appeared
wearing the scapular, would you tell us something about this? I understand
that She introduced herself as Our Lady of Carmel?
Mari Loli: I do not remember how She
announced herself. When we saw Her wearing the scapular we thought that
She was Our Lady of Mount Carmel, but I don't remember Her having said
Fr. Benac: Since Our Lady always
wears the Scapular hanging from Her right hand what would you conclude?
Mari Loli: Naturally it would be like
an invitation for all to wear it also. From my childhood I had been invested
with the Scapular of Mount Carmel
and I always wore it. One morning however, as I got up, I found my Scapular
all burnt and I asked myself, "How
is it possible that the Scapular should be burnt as it is on both sides?"
Then I put on a new one but the same
thing happened again the following morning and this made me feel that it
was the devil who had done it. The Scapular had been BURNT TWICE as if
with a match and it was all "BLACK", and that caused me great
fear. It is true that sometimes I had been neglectful
in wearing it and at other times I wore the Scapular medal instead... as
with the recitaion of the Rosary so did Our Lady come to my aid with the
Scapular through my husband, Francis, who even before he had heard of Garabandal
was already wearing the Scapular very faithfully. He was surprised to see
me without it after having seen Our Lady so many times. As I said, at times
I didn't wear it or wore the Scapular medal instead and he urged me to
change it for a "CLOTH"
Scapular. He would even offer me a few reasons why I should wear
it and of course, since then I have always had it on!
Fr. Benac: Did Our Lady appear anytime
wearing a brown dress?
Mari Loli: I do have a faint idea that
once She did appear dressed in brown.
Fr. Pelletier: If I remember well,
Mari Cruz also made a reference to Our Lady dressed in brown.
Fr. Benac: Briefly let me have your
reaction to the various pictures of Our Lady of Garabandal which you have
seen. In your opinion do you feel She is better represented when She is
painted holding the Infant Jesus or when She is alone?
Mari Loli: Well She appeared sometimes
with the Infant Jesus and sometimes alone. I find those paintings of Our
Lady lifeless. Moreover, Her Face was much more beautiful, still She understands
the limitations of the artists.
Fr. Benac: Regarding the Infant Jesus,
was it frequently or rarely that She appeared carrying Him in Her arms?
Mari Loli: I think it was quite
a number of times that She did appear with the Infant Jesus.
Fr. Benac: And was it on such occasions
that some of you asked the Virgin to let you hold the Child in your arms?
Mari Loli: Yes, She did let us have the
Infant Jesus for a while. She would pass Him to us and sometimes we would
pass Him from one to the other.
Fr. Benac: What did you feel you
Mari Loli: We could not sense or feel
His weight yet we couldn't move our hands beyond the space occupied by
His body when we had him in our arms. He looked and smiled at us. He looked
like a normal child only that as I was a little child it caused me surprise
to see Him as a child and yet so big being God.
Fr. Benac: Did Our Lady let you hold
Her Crown in your hands?
Mari Loli: Yes. I recollect that we did
all the movements to take the crown. I don't recall clearly how the crown
was held, or anything else; yet, I remember what I had said, that the stars,
I think, were loose, but at the same time they could not be separated from
the crown and they were shining like gold.
Fr. Benac: Coming to another point,
what was it that Our Lady asked of you during the apparitions?
Mari Loli: What She asked of us mostly
was to do PENANCE, TO VISIT THE BLESSED
SACRAMENT, TO BE OBEDIENT TO OUR PARENTS AND TO THE CHURCH.
So I remember when the Church authorities forbade us from entering the
church while in ecstasy She told us that the most important thing was to
obey the Church, and so, from then on She never again led us into the church
while we were in ecstasy.
Fr. Benac: In photographs you are
seen lifting each other.
Mari Loli: Yes, to kiss Her when She
appeared higher up.
Fr. Benac: When you were helping
and lifting each other were you aware of it; could you see each other?
Loli: Yes, when we were lifting each other I could see the others
also in ecstasy, and talk to them. We had no problem. During the ecstasies
we were very light, so we were told.
Fr. Benac: While in ecstasy you were
seen directing your arm towards different people to give them your crucifix
to kiss. Were you seeing the people to whom you would give the crucifix
Mari Loli: Our Lady would tell us where
to direct the cross as if She would be guiding us by the hand to the different
Fr. Benac: I believe Our Lady would
lead you to the homes where there was someone ailing.
Mari Loli: Yes, whenever there were sick
people I think She would always lead us to bless them. She would cure them.
Fr. Pelletier: At the time
of giving the Crucifix to Priests to "kiss" would you be actually
on your knees?
Mari Loli: I don't remember but each
time we would be directed to Bless a Priest we always gave him our Crucifix
Fr. Benac: Regarding Fr.
Luis Andreu were you all four in ecstasy when he had the vision of
the great Miracle?
Mari Loli: While we four were in ecstasy,
I remember seeing him looking up at the Pines and saying, "Miracle!
Miracle! Miracle!" I remember this well. I remember also that
on the same day I had a "Finger" Rosary which Fr. Luis
had given me to have "kissed" by Our Lady. I had pinned it to
my clothes with a safety pin, but somehow that day it got lost. After the
ecstasy, I noticed that I had lost it and said to Fr. Luis, "Father,
don't be anxious because at the next apparition I will ask Our Lady to
let me know where it is." As Father Luis had to leave he said to me,
"If you find it, PLEASE GIVE IT TO MY BROTHER, BECAUSE I SHALL
NOT COME BACK." At that moment I didn't reflect over this remark,
'till the following day while I was cleaning the church, with Jacinta,
and the news of Father's death reached us. It was then that I recalled
Father's words THAT HE WOULD NOT COME BACK; we didn't know he
was going to die. Then I thought that perhaps Our Lady had told him this
when he had the Vision at the Pines.
Fr. Benac: But what happened to the
"Lost" Rosary in the meantime?
Mari Loli: That same night during the
apparition, I asked Our Lady to let me know where
the Rosary could be and She told where it was. So I went in search of it;
She told me it was in the calleja near a large rock. Then I asked
Jacinta to come along with me because Our Lady had told me where I could
find the Rosary; so we went together and I lifted the stone and there it
Fr. Benac: And so Jacinta saw you
picking up the Rosary from under the rock?
Mari Loli: Oh yes, Father.
Fr. Benac: When you conveyed to Our
Lady "Any Messages" from the people, did She give you an answer?
Mari Loli: Yes, several times. I remember
when Mercedes Salisachs requested that I ask Our Lady where her son, who
had died in a car accident in Paris, was. I don't remember
if She (Our Lady) told me where he was the first time I asked Her, but
when She told me She said that I should not tell her until Saturday. I
believe it was Holy Saturday. In the meantime, she was in great pain and
anxiety until on Holy Saturday as we were going round the village reciting
the Rosario de la Aurora — the Rosary at Dawn — early
morning I suddenly remembered that I had to break the news to the lady.
So I went over and told her that Our Lady had assured me that her son
was in Heaven and told me the name of the boy, "Miguel". She
was very happy at the news and was weeping, full of emotion.
Fr. Benac: After Our Lady stopped
appearing to you didn't you also have some locutions?
Mari Loli: Yes, I did. I don't remember
how many, but the last one occurred when I was in the school at Zaragoza.
I don't remember the date but I do remember that Our Lady gave me a Message
for the Mother Superior. It was then that I asked Our Lady if my father
could believe in the apparitions (at the time he was Mayor of the Village).
My father though at the beginning did believe, later doubted and used to
say that the whole affair seemed rather strange, that Our Lady should appear
like that. So when asking Our Lady this grace She told me that soon
he would believe. She assured me that he would believe and so my father
did receive PROOF before he died.
Fr. Benac: And how did this happen?
Mari Loli: One day a number of people
of the village gathered in front of our house carrying a Statue of Our
Lady of Fatima I think. They were all praying for his recovery from "cancer".
My father was not a fervent Christian though he would go to Mass every
Sunday, but during his illness he changed totally; he began to receive
Communion every day and when he was suffering intensely he would call the
Priest to make his confession; and he would ask Our Lady to help him. When
he learned that people down in the street were praying for him, he became
very emotional and though very ill he wanted to go to the window. I don't
know what he was actually praying for but suddenly a person from the group
picked a "rose" from those which were around Our Lady's
Statue carried by the people, and came up.... My mother received the "rose"
and placed it near the Crucifix by my father's bed. Then suddenly he exclaimed
joyfully: "Well, thanks be to God
for I have received the PROOF!" My father had
a most beautiful death.
Fr. Benac: How could you discern
that these interior callings were "Supernatural Locutions"?
Mari Loli: Because I would feel very
clearly within me as if God were speaking to me, and I felt it as something
unusual. I remember that this happened to me many times especially after
receiving Holy Communion.
Fr. Benac: What gave you more joy
the "Apparitions" or "Locutions"?
Mari Loli: The "Apparitions"
are something beautiful, but I felt that the "Locutions" were
Fr. Benac: During these "Locutions"
did Our Lady speak to you about the Holy Father or Priests?
Mari Loli: Many of these "Locutions"
were in answer to petitions which I was making for myself or for others,
and often also for spiritual graces which I would ask of Her for myself
or for the grace to do what She wanted me to do. Most of these "Locutons"
were with Our Lord but also a number of times with Our Lady. The ones with
Our Lady were not after Communion but in the house and often when I was
praying perhaps before going to bed. Sometimes She would give me answers
to questions which I had asked Her some days earlier.
Fr. Benac: We know from books and
your own statements that Our Lady taught all four of you how to recite
the Rosary slowly and meditatively. Do you have something to tell us about
yourself in this regard?
Mari Loli: Yes. Our Lady told me one
day in a "Locution" that SHE
WANTED ME TO RECITE THE FIFTEEN MYSTERIES OF THE ROSARY EVERY DAY.
I did this for some time but I must confess that after awhile I turned
sluggish and faltered. Reflecting now over this, it seems to me that Our
Lady must have said to Herself: "This child cannot manage it alone
so I better send someone to her who will help her fulfill my wish."
And so it happened that when I came to know my husband, Francis, I
learned from him that he was already, for some time reciting the Fifteen
Mysteries of the Rosary every day! So, from the time of our marriage
we both have been saying the Fifteen Decades of the Rosary "Daily"
without fail. Our Lady must be pleased.
Fr. Pelletier: Besides
the two "Main Messages," haven't you referred to others?
Mari Loli: Yes, there are
in addition to the "Main Ones." Both were published in Maria Saraco's
newspaper The Vigil and I will read them (both signed by Mari Loli
has told us that the world continues the same way. It has not changed at
all; there are so few who have amended their lives. This hurts the Virgin
very much. The Virgin has told us that the Chastisement is coming seeing
that the world has not changed; THE CUP IS FILLING UP. How sad the
Virgin was though She did not let us see Her interior sorrow because She
loves us so much and She suffers alone — SHE IS SO GOOD! BE GOOD,
EVERONE, SO THAT THE VIRGIN MAY BE CONTENT. SHE TOLD US THAT WE WHO ARE GOOD
SHOULD PRAY FOR THOSE WHO ARE BAD. LET US PRAY TO GOD FOR THE WORLD; FOR
THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW HIM. BE GOOD EVERYONE, BE GOOD."
The other message was reported by Jacinta
in a letter to Fr. Jose [Ramon Garcia] de la Riva, in Asturias, dated Tuesday,
June 19,1962: "Loli and I were in the
calleja, the place of the first apparition, and the Virgin gave us a
message for world and it is this: "THE VIRGIN HAS TOLD THAT WE ARE
NOW AWAITING THE CHASTISEMENT BECAUSE WE ARE DISREGARDING HER FIRST MESSAGE
BY OUR WAY OF LIVING. Yes, it will come, because the world has not changed
in spite of Her Two Messages to the world. The world is worse and
it has not changed at all, so prepare yourself for the Chastisement, it will
come soon. This message was given to me." ...signed,
Fr. Benac: Did Our Lady make reference
at any time to the Holy Father?
Mari Loli: The only thing I remember was
Her remark about OBEDIENCE TO THE CHURCH
AND TO THE POPE. Moreover, She asked for
PRAY FOR PRIESTS. One
of the things which Our Lady asked of me most frequently was to PRAY
FOR PRIESTS AND MAKE SACRIFICES for
Fr. Benac: Do you remember
the "Night of the Screams"? How did that happen? Did Our Lady
give you special instructions that night?
Mari Loli: I think you are referring
to the day when all four of us were at the cuadro and we stayed
awake the whole night. I think it was on the Eve of Corpus Christi. I remember
early that morning we had gone to the church to decorate the altar for
the feast. That night Our Lady spoke
to us at length about the punishment and gave us the message for the whole
world of prayer and penance.
Fr. Pelletier: Our Lady
said that Priests would have to go into hiding. Will that happen before
Mari Loli: Yes, because things will turn
worse and everything will be bad.
Fr. Benac: Will this sort of "persecution"
be as a consequence of Communism?
Mari Loli: Well, this is not clear in
my mind but judging from what I was seeing I
FELT THAT COMMUNISM WAS GOING TO BE A PART OF THE CHASTISEMENT.
However, if people pray much, this can be stopped from spreading
all over the world. I see it this way as if Communism would be in the "Chastisement",
the human scourge as part of it.
Fr. Benac: For this reason Fr. Pelletier
is asking you whether, if the world changes, the Chastisement will be prevented.
You were describing to us the "Night of Screams"; did Our Lady
let you see a "Vision" of the Punishment?
Mari Loli: Yes,
She did. Our Lady spoke several times about Communism. I don't remember
how often, but She said that a time would come when it would seem as if
Communism was to "Master or Engulf the Whole World".
Fr. Benac: And how did you react while
seeing all this?
Mari Loli: Well, as we were seeing the
children we too were crying out asking that no harm should be done to them
as we were feeling great pity for them.... I don't remember more.
Fr. Pelletier: Where
did the "fire" come from?
Mari Loli: I could not see where it was
coming from, but it was everywhere. Villages looked deserted and people
in the streets were shouting and acting violently against each other all
suffering in desperation.
Fr. Benac: But did you see the end
of the whole thing? Was it then that Our Lady said that this would be something
like the "end of the world"?
Mari Loli: SHE
ONLY SAID THIS WAS THE CHASTISRMENT AND NOT THE "END OF THE WORLD".
Fr. Pelletier: Did
you see anything like war, people and cities burning or destroyed?
Mari Loli: Everything was on "fire"
and people were fighting but I did not see any weapons.
Fr. Benac: So all this took place
on the "Night of the Screams" when you were all screaming?
Mari Loli: As I said before, this occurred
twice, the second time was when all four of us were together at the Pines.
We were alone and the people were asked to stay far away. Only
"two little girls," Jacinta's sister and my own both six and
seven years of age, were near us.
Fr. Benac: Could this conditional
Chastisement be the reason why Our Lady said in Her Second Message, "You
are now receiving the last warning"? Otherwise what meaning would
you give to these words?
Mari Loli: I took it to mean that we
were coming closer to the end and that She would not be coming many times
more — as She had already warned us twice — and we
did not listen to Her.
Fr. Benac: While
the Blessed Virgin was showing you the Vision of the Chastisement what was
the expression on Her Face?
Mari Loli: She looked sad but not so
much. She had a sort of resigned expression.
Fr. Benac: Did She speak to you
at anytime about "Hell" and the "Loss of Souls"?
Mari Loli: I only recall the reference
She made in the MESSAGE TO BISHOPS AND
PRIEST WHO WERE ON THE ROAD TO PERDITION AND TAKING MANY SOULS WITH THEM.
Fr. Benac: Did the Blessed Virgin
speak of Communism?
Mari Loli: Our
Lady spoke several times about Communism. I don't remember how many times,
but She said that a time would come when it would seem as if Communism
was to "Master or Engulf the Whole World". I think it was
then that She told us that Priests would have difficulty
in saying Mass and talking about God and Divine Things.
Fr. Pelletier: Did
Our Lady ever speak of people being put to death?
Mari Loli: What Our Lady said was that
Priests would go into "hiding" but I did not see whether
they were being killed or not. She didn't exactly say they would be killed,
but I am sure that they will be "Martyred".
Fr. Pelletier: Your mother
told me that one night you were upstairs with your father and that you
cried and cried for one hour. And that afterwards your father told her,
"I have seen the most touching sight. Loli was crying all the time
and she was saying, 'Oh, its going to be like that? People are going to
suffer like that? Oh, make me suffer!' Do you remember what you said at
Mari Loli: All this was related to Communism
and what is going to happen in the Church and to the people because all
these things are to have repercussions amongst the people because when
the Church suffers confusion, the people are going to suffer too.
SOME PRIESTS WHO ARE COMMUNISTS...WILL CREATE
SUCH CONFUSION THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG.
Fr. Benac: Since you are the one
who knows the most about the Warning will you tell us: is this event to
take place before the Miracle promised through Conchita Gonzalez?
Mari Loli: The
Warning is meant to help us see what we are doing, how much evil we are
doing, how much pain we are causing God. Everyone will experience it wherever
they may be regardless of their condition or their knowledge of God. It
will take place all over the world. Yes, it will be an interior personal
experience. It will look as if the world had come to a standstill, however,
no one will not be aware of it as they all will be totally absorbed in
their own experience.
Fr. Benac: Do you know the Year of
Mari Loli: Yes, the "Year"
but not the day.
Fr. Benac: Do the others also know
Mari Loli: I don't know if the others
know the "Year", but I presume so since we were so often together,
and they had spoken about it on different occasions.
Fr. Benac: But did you have any instructions
from Our Lady not to pass this information to others?
Mari Loli: No, She never told me not
to do that, but I feel I shouldn't say it for the present.
Fr. Benac: So, if such is the case,
what would you advise people in view of that uncertainty about the "date"
Mari Loli: TO
DO MUCH PENANCE, TO PRAY MORE AND TO BE BETTER.
Fr. Benac: What Fr. Pelletier and
I would like you to explain more clearly is the nature of the Warning.
How do you sense it?
Mari Loli: Yes,
it will be an interior personal experience. It will look as if the world
had come to a standstill, however, no one will not be aware of it as they
all will be totally absorbed in their own experience.
It is going to be something like an interior feeling of sorrow and pain
for having offended God. God will help us to see clearly the harm we are
causing Him and all the evil things that we do. God will help us to sense
that interior pain
because often when we do something wrong we just ask with our "lips"
for the Lord to forgive us, but now He will help us to physically feel
that deep sorrow.
Fr. Benac: Would you say that this
Warning will be a help towards ones purification? And is there any correlation
between the "Warning" and the "Miracle"?
Mari Loli: Yes,
the "Two" will take place within 12 months.
The Warning will be a purification and preparation to return to
Fr. Benac: As Conchita seems to have
explained, will it be for the correction of our conscience in preparation
to accept the Miracle as a Sign from God?
Mari Loli: I would say that the Miracle
will be a Gift from God and all will feel happy realizing how good God
is by giving us such a gift as an "Expression"
of His love.
Fr. Benac: Is it correct what Conchita
had said that after the Miracle there will remain a visible "Sign"
at the Pines?
Mari Loli: I don't know very much about
Fr. Benac: Was the "Last"
Message delivered to all four of you or only to Conchita?
Mari Loli: Only to Conchita. She didn't
tell us, but we saw her writing it down and we heard it. It is to act as
a deterrent to prevent the worst from taking place the Punishment.
Fr. Benac: Did Our Lady say that
if people prayed enough and did "Penance" the Chastisement could
Mari Loli: SHE
SAID THE CUP WAS FILLING UP, THAT WE HAD TO MAKE MANY SACRIFICES AND PERFORM
MUCH PENANCE. SHE ALSO SAID THAT WE MUST TURN THE ANGER OF GOD AWAY FROM
OURSELVES BY OUR OWN EFFORTS.
Fr. Pelletier:Did She say this to
you many times?
Mari Loli: For me this was the
why She appeared, to give the world Her "Message" so that people
would repent, change their lives and stop committing sins.
Fr. Benac: In the little space left
on the tape, would you say a few words by way of a "Message of Encouragement"
and Love for Our Bishops, Brother Priests, and the hundreds of our people
of India who have accepted with so much love and faith Our Lady's Message.
Mari Loli: Dear Brothers
and Sisters of India, I am sure that the Blessed Mother is very pleased with
all the work you are doing to promote Her Message. Surely, She will reward
you. May I ask you to pray for me also.